Starting a series of interviews with successful scientists who can boast of international Polish-Italian cooperation, we include a conversation with Professor Górecki, a long-time employee of the Institute of Organic Chemistry (IChO) at the Polish Academy of Sciences. In recent years, he has received scholarships that enabled him to develop his research work at the University of Pisa, and he agreed to tell us more about the research done there and the experience he gained.

How much time did you spend in Pisa?

All together it was three years, within two mobility programs financed by the Polish Ministry of Science and Higher Education (MEiN) & Polish National Agency for Academic Exchange (NAWA). In addition, at the Department of Chemistry and Industrial Chemistry of the University of Pisa, I carried out two monthly scientific visits in 2018 and 2022, as part of the Visiting Fellow program offered by the University of Pisa for foreigners.

Was further scientific cooperation born at that time?

 Mobility programs gave me not only the opportunity to cooperate with outstanding scientists in my field (Prof. Lorenzo Di Bari and Prof. Gennaro Pescitelli) but also allowed me to participate in works on many different topics and research threads and ultimately develop the most interesting ones. These studies were the basis for writing further applications and planning joint scientific publications.

And friendships?

Knowledge of the Italian language undoubtedly made it easier for me to make acquaintences and friendships that continue to this day. Three years - from the perspective - it's really a long time...! My friends have already been to Warsaw several times, and I had the opportunity to show them the most interesting things in our capital.

What were the effects of the Italian research under the MEiN and NAWA mobility grants?

The first project lasted for two years (2016-2017). It was carried out within the Mobility Plus Program supported by the Polish Ministry of Science and Higher Education. The goal of this research has been the development of new chiral lanthanide complexes that could be directly applied in the area of modern and future circularly polarized organic light-emitting diodes (CP-OLEDs), or in others new applications like security tags. As a result, a high value of the luminescence dissymmetry factor for samarium (Sm³⁺) complexes was found with interesting optical and chiroptical properties.

The second mobility project was carried out in 2019 thanks to funding from the Polish National Agency for Academic Exchange (NAWA) within the Bekker Scholarship. The objective of this project was to construct and demonstrate that a new microsampling device (NanoCD) for regular circular dichroism (CD) spectropolarimeter can be helpful in solving relevant problems appearing during a chiral analysis. I have found that this accessory, thanks to about 10 times higher resolution with resepect to the traditional measurement, can easily recognize diverse domains on the surface of solid chiral samples. This finding prompted our international team to further explore this issue at the Diamond Light Source in the UK, euipped with the most advanced instrumentation for mapping chiral surfaces. As a result, we have found that the observed solid-phase CD spectrum is directly governed by the anisotropy of locally oriented crystals. This introduces a new quality to solid-state CD measurements and opens up a new chapter in exploring chiral solids and materials.

What exactly is chirality?

Chirality can be defined as the non-identity of an object with its mirror image. This phenomenon is widespread in everyday life, but we usually do not realize it, although we feel the consequences of chiralty directly every step of the way. Look at your hands - they are chiral too! The left hand is the mirror image of the right hand and vice versa, but the one hand cannot be superimposed on the other, as the thumbs will always point in the opposite direction. And this is the characteristic feature of all chiral objects - they are very similar, but not identical! We say, for example, 'right' or 'left' shoe - to distinguish them somehow; they are not identical because they cannot be superimposed on each other by translation or rotation.

The same feature noticeable in the macroworld around us is also observed in the microworld. It turns out that most of the essential chemical compounds in living organisms are chiral - the basic "building blocks" of our body: amino acids, sugars, proteins and nucleic acids are also chiral. This means they exist in our body in only one form out of two or more possible options.

When did your adventure with chirality begin?

A long time ago! In fact, for the first time, I came across the concept of chirality during a chemistry lesson in the third class of a public high school - it was 2001. Next, at the end of the second year of studies (May 2004) at the Faculty of Chemistry in the Warsaw University of Technology, as a result of an amazing coincidence, I ended up as a student-trainee at the Institute of Organic Chemistry of the Polish Academy of Sciences, in the laboratory headed by Prof. Jadwiga Frelek, who dealt with the use of chiroptical methods in the stereochemical analysis of organic compounds. And so began my story with chiral compounds and methods for their analysis which is still ongoing.

What are you working on now?

Currently, the main goal of the projects are developing new  methods and techniques for studying chiral compounds in solid-phase. Chiroptical methods give us a unique opportunity that other methods (which are sometimes complementary) do not have, and therefore they give us a direct chance to see two forms of a chiral substance (left and right), as we see an object and its mirror image in the macroworld around us. This, in turn, gives us the tools to study and analyze various chiral compounds with extreme sensitivity and precision in a very selective way. Currently, most modern drugs and modern/future materials are based on chiral compounds. Thus, my research activity is also based on compounds with applicative properties in many cases. At that time, I am expanding the method of distinguishing active pharamaceutical substance (APIs), showing the extremly important phenomenon of polymorphism and solvatomorphism.

How was working in Italy?

Very good - I am truly in my element when I am in Italy! The scientific cooperation with the CD@Pisa research group at the University of Pisa was extremly interesting for me, not only from the scientific, but also cultural point of view. I had a fantastic opportunity to live for over three years in a country with a different culture, which always made work very interesting and developing for me.

Could you identify any particular challenges you encountered in your research?

Challenges - often called difficulties - are probably something quite natural. The conducted research, particularly in the second project, was related to the development of a high-resolution mapping device and yielded intriguing results. However, there were some difficulties in finding an appropriate theoritical model that would explaind and de facto predict the genesis of the measured phenomenon: CD at high spatial resolution. Ulimately, thanks to cooperation with theoretical chemists, each side could look at a given issue from different points of view, and finally, this approach resulted in an explanation of the essence of the measured phenomenon.

How do you assess the possibilities of obtaining funds for resarch in Poland and Italy?

 In Poland, we have national grant agencies (National Science Center, National Center for Research and Develpment, National Agency for Academic Exchange), which are direct executive agencies of the Polish Ministry of Education and Science (MEiN) dedicated to obtaining funds for basic research, application research for foreign cooperation and academic exchanges, respectively. In the last years, the success rate in major grant competitions has been in the range of 20-30%, giving researchers a real chance to get their research funding. Unfortunately, the situation has worsened significantly in the last two years, causing the success rate, e.g., in National Science Center (NCN) drop to 10-15%. This is now a significant challenge for Polish science policy in the context of restoring the success rate to its previous - appropriate - values.

In Italy, however, there is an entirely different system of financing science. In addition to ministerial grants, which are very competitive, there are basic funds allocated every year by universities to individual scientists based on their scientific achievements. In parallel, there are projects financed by regional grants. There is also quite common cooperation of various groups with industry and funding research by the private sector. In addition, what is important, there is also a large number of ERC grants. This shows not only the high level of work carried out but also the high efficiency and effectiveness of international cooperation among Italian sciencists.

 Why do you consider your Italian visits important for scientific development?

In Pisa, I had excellent working conditions, thanks to which since 2016, several joint publications in international scientific journals have been published as part of the cooperation, and more are in preparation. The results of our collaborative research have been presented at several international conferences in Italy, Poland, France and Germany. In addition, research activities at the University of Pisa gave me new ideas crucial for subseuent projects and inspired me to apply for the Sonata grant from the National Science Center (NCN), which was successfully funded in 2020. Interesting discussions also undoubtedly influenced my further work in Poland, giving me a slightly different perspective on existing scientific problems. I also had the opportunity to conduct research using equipment unavaiable in Poland - a spectrometer for measuring circularly polarized luminescence (CPL). In addition, I got to see a different organizational culture of science, e.g., see how the work of a department or research group is organized, which is undoubtedly another positive value.

Did you bring from Italy any interesting habits, new dishes, the way of brewing coffee, Italian phrases?

My approach to Italian cuisine has certainly changed after my stays in Italy, which I now admire primarly for it's simplicity and the clever ability to combine usually 3-4 ingredients, which will then create a tasty and interesting  dish. For me now, Italian cuisine is one of a few simple ingredients with infinite possibilities and flavors. Currenly, in Poland it is easier to buy good quality, original Italian products than it was 6-10 years ago. It turns out that Italy is the third country from which Poland imports the most goods...

At home, i often bake focaccia - I have a few recipes from friends. Each region of Italy has its own, typical focaccia and each is different with its long tradition. Doppio coffee - preferably 2-3 times a day from a coffee maker, and certainly not americano, as it used to be before. As for Italian phrases, I studied with great interest the meanings of various idioms and phraseological expressions and their use in the language, in the context of differences in the use of equivalent expressions in Polish.

And any non-scientific discoveries?

That is an excellent question! One of my most interesting non-scientific discoveries was that our double Nobel Prize winner Maria Skłodowska-Curie started her first trip around Italy from Pisa. In summer 1918 together with eminent Pisan chemists, she went to several thermal hot springs in Tuscany to examine the level of natural radiation, and then she traveled with them to other places in Italy, where she studied, among others, highly radioactive sources of water. The University of Pisa still has the original materials from that visit, which I had the opportunity to see.

Thanks for the interview!

Thank you for the invitation!